In viewing this thread (http://michiganstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/tom-dienhart-post-about-dl-ol.25302/#post-241374) from last week about Tom Dienhart ranking MSU's d-line ahead of OSU's d-line for the coming season, I was compelled to compare the two d-lines on a player-by-player basis. I don’t have a total rundown on each and every player, but I arrive in agreement with Dienhardt, although there are some x-factors and unknown variables that could swing things as we get into September and October.
Why delve into this?
D-line is one of the most interesting aspects of the game to examine at this time of year, and as each season progresses. You can’t win a National Championship without a dominant d-line. (At least that’s been the case in the 85-scholarship era, since 1993).
You can win the National Championship without a dominant RB, QB, TE, set of WRs, OL, set of LBs and even without a dominant secondary. But, based on the commonality of past champions, you can’t win without a dominant d-line. You need assorted dominance at the other positions, but none of those areas requires singular dominance the way it is required on the d-line, if you want to win the National Championship.
That’s why it’s worth the time in July to look at the two best teams in the Big Ten, who also happen to have the two best d-lines in the conference, and try to figure out which one is likely to be the best, and whether both, either or neither are capable of becoming dominant defensive lines.
I think OSU has the best individual DE of the two teams (Joey Bosa) and OSU should have the best individual DT of the two teams (Adolphus Washington), but I like MSU’s overall strength and depth at the position. It’s a slight edge to go with Washington over Malik McDowell, although McDowell should be entering a window of steep improvement soon, which could help him overtake Washington. But right now, based on what we’ve seen from the two players so far, I’d go with Washington, a senior, over McDowell, a sophomore.
Washington had 10.5 TFLs last year and was honorable mention All-Big Ten. He is likely to make a jump in productivity this year, but so is McDowell.
[These perceptions can change sharply in September, of course, depending on which - if any - players are making big off-season jumps. We won’t get those answers until the actual games begin].
In this post, first I will take a look at OSU’s d-line of a year ago and discuss why I think they will be weaker this year.
Then, I’ll compare OSU’s projected d-line to MSU’s projected d-line.
At this time last year, I thought OSU was on the short list of teams around the country that could field a dominant defensive line (and therefore put their team on the short list of National Championship candidates. I thought this was impossible after OSU’s loss to Va Tech, and the suspension of Noah Spence, but it turned out to be true).
Can OSU field a dominant d-line again this year? Sure, it’s possible. OSU has a dominant DE in Bosa and a player who should be dominant at three-tech DT in Washington. (Washington played nose guard last year. He is moving to the three-technique to replace Michael Bennett, who graduated and became a sixth-round draft pick).
HOWEVER, Ohio State will be WEAKER at nose tackle than last year. Tommy Schutt, a fifth-year senior who has done very little to this point in his career, will be the new nose guard. I’m sure he’ll rise up and become a serviceable player, but he won’t be as good a nose tackle as Washington was last year. And the combination of Washington and Schutt won’t be as strong as the combo of Washington and Bennett.
Is there a star on the rise ready to compete with Schutt? Maybe. But if so, I’m not aware of him, maybe because I don't know OSU's roster and two-deep as well as I know MSU's. But for now, I won’t trust much of anything that I might read about any potential candidates. I only trust what I see on film. And there's no film yet. There wasn't much from the back-up d-linemen last season, other than Schutt and Tyquan Lewis (whom I will discuss in a moment).
Will OSU’s new starting DE be as good as Steve Miller was last year? Miller graduated and was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Jacksonville Jaguars. Miller was a dependable d-end. He was a 255-pounder who clocked in with a 5.0 40 at the NFL Combine. He was a quality college player, not a great one. Not quite as good as Marcus Rush, in my opinion, but still a quality player that OSU must replace.
The biggest x-factor on the OSU d-line is Miller’s replacement. Tyquan Lewis (6-3, 260, Soph.) held first-string status in the spring. He saw 201 snaps as a back-up DE last year, including 25 in the National Championship game vs Oregon. He had nine tackles on the year and 2.5 TFLs.
Lewis was a 4-star recruit, ranked the No. 12 weak side DE in the country and was No. 8 in North Carolina.
I took some notes on Lewis last year prior to the MSU-OSU game. He played 30-plus snaps vs Illinois last year, and I reviewed that game closely in advance of the MSU-OSU game, but didn’t arrive at any strong opinions at that time about Lewis other than “looks athletic.” I had lots of opinions on many other players, but none on Lewis. Will he be a difference-maker this year? That would be quite a leap, but OSU athletes have made that leap before.
So this guy is the x-factor. He’ll be starting at DE for a d-line that could end up being as good or better than MSU’s, and could become a dominant all-around defensive line - but not without a major step-up, uptick from Lewis.
Last year, OSU had a d-line of Bosa and Miller at DE, Bennett and Washington at DT. Schutt and Lewis were solid but unspectacular off the bench.
This year it will be Bosa and x-factor Lewis at DE. With Washington and pedestrian Schutt at DT. I don’t have much of a read on their back-ups.
MSU will have Shilique Calhoun and Lawrence Thomas at d-end, with x-factors Montez Sweat and Demetrious Cooper as back-up DEs. One of them could become a spot starter against spread teams.
We know more about Sweat and Cooper because we are more familiar with MSU’s roster and development updates. Is there a Sweat and/or Cooper on the OSU roster ready to match their athleticism and future productivity? Probably so, but I don’t know enough about their situation to evaluate that. But we know that Sweat and Cooper are very promising.
Overall, I like Calhoun/LT and MSU’s back-ups over OSU’s d-end situation - despite the fact that Bosa is the best of the bunch. But maybe not by much. I thought Calhoun looked quicker with his take-off at the Green-White Game than he was last fall. I didn’t notice this while watching it live. I noted it while watching the replay. I haven’t had a chance to ask Calhoun or coaches if in fact he has improved his take-off.
Lawrence Thomas turned in the most head-turning play of the Green-White Game, in my opinion. I’ll try to get some film of it in the next day or so. Again, I didn’t notice it live, but there was a play in which he beat Jack Conklin to the outside for a QB pressure. On that play, LT’s take-off was better than anything I had seen from him at the past, AND he was able to bend at the waist, get low, get his shoulder under Conklin, and keep coming forward with quickness AND power WHILE turning the corner. It was a high-, high-percentile play. Can he do it play after play? I don’t know. But when LT flips the switch, he can do some things that most others can’t.
I predicted a huge jump in productivity for LT last year at DT, and it didn’t quite happen. He was good, solid, functional, but unspectacular. I’m sticking with the prediction, but I think it will come 12 months later in 2015 and partly at a different position - defensive end.
At defensive tackle, MSU has proven, functional veterans in Joel Heath and Damon Knox. The key for those guys is to be able to take on double-teams without giving up any movement. That’s what Micajah Reynolds provided in 2013, and so did Tyler Hoover. Hoover made huge improvements in that area of the last 18 months of his career. I would anticipate Heath and Knox to be better than fine in this capacity, and also come forward for the occasional play at the line of scrimmage or behind it, like Reynolds did.
**
The last time we saw Heath in a real game, he turned in a strong, plus-play early in the Cotton Bowl. From my notes:
JOEL HEATH
+ First play 1-10, Heath belted the left guard back a half yard on an inside zone, bounced the play. The play went for a loss of 4, and Heath put the initial dent in the play by destroying the left guard. Not only did he belt the left guard back, he also messed up the geometry of the run play. The left tackle was supposed to join the left guard in double-teaming Heath, but Heath changed the landmark by belting the left guard back. The left tackle came off at what turned out to be the wrong aiming point.
Bullough was in the A gap, causing the RB to bounce. Bullough was unobstructed and able to jump over to the C gap and bounce him again.
Calhoun knifed inside the TE, bounced it further, Mylan Hicks sprinted and bounced it further, and Kurtis Drummond made the ankle tackle as the slot WR Cannon forgot to block the safety. (Cannon might not have been used to seeing plays get bounced in his direction). Loss of 4 to produce a third-and-5- dropped pass two snaps later. Heath made it happen up front, by defeating a double-team before it got started.
+ Heath assisted on TFL on 3-1 in the second quarter, got off the center to make the stop on an inside run.
(I had two “plus” plays for Heath in that game, no “minus” plays. Overall, I thought he ended his junior season with a good game).
**
Malik McDowell is the guy with the highest upside in the Michigan State DT crew. He offered mixed performance in the Cotton Bowl. He had some disciplinary problems on the field in that game, getting flagged twice for personal fouls. But he also turned in some of the best eye-opening plays of the day for a beleaguered defense.
Remember that McDowell earned the starting nod for the Cotton Bowl, over Knox.
I would expect McDowell and Heath to start at DT this fall, with Knox coming off the bench. Lawrence Thomas can move inside to DT in some games against some opponents in some situations. That’s a potentially very, very strong rotation. Plus, Enoch Smith is a solid bet to work into the rotation as the fourth or fifth man. He’s still a puppy. But he’ll have to be solid in order to stay ahead of the rest of the talented puppies inside.
My Cotton Bowl notes on McDowell:
* Started at NT in Cotton Bowl.
* Moved out to three technique on third-and-4
* Played with a perfectly flat back on first two snaps.
++ On the play prior to the trick play TD pass to the fat guy, McDowell took on a double-team at the three-technique, didn’t give up an inch, got low, got underneath it, powered out the other side and tackled the RB for a loss of 1. TFL when getting double teamed? Unthinkable. That was a major horsepower play - the only “double-plus” play that I charted for the defense all day.
+ Whupped the left guard’s butt for a QB flush and scramble keeper in red zone on second- and-10 with MSU down 41-21 with :06 left in the third quarter. Little plays like that helped stall Baylor in the red zone and keep MSU hanging in the game. This play drew a holding penalty, backed Baylor up, leading to the missed field goal off the upright.
**
Overall, in terms of individual starting talent, it’s Calhoun, Thomas, McDowell and Heath vs Bosa, Washington, Schutt and x-factor Lewis.
I agree with Dienhardt and give the edge to MSU.
Add Knox, Sweat, Cooper and Thomas’ ability to swing inside, and I think the d-line could be loaded with plus-playing individuals for every snap of each game. It’s going to be intriguing to watch this unit develop.
Why delve into this?
D-line is one of the most interesting aspects of the game to examine at this time of year, and as each season progresses. You can’t win a National Championship without a dominant d-line. (At least that’s been the case in the 85-scholarship era, since 1993).
You can win the National Championship without a dominant RB, QB, TE, set of WRs, OL, set of LBs and even without a dominant secondary. But, based on the commonality of past champions, you can’t win without a dominant d-line. You need assorted dominance at the other positions, but none of those areas requires singular dominance the way it is required on the d-line, if you want to win the National Championship.
That’s why it’s worth the time in July to look at the two best teams in the Big Ten, who also happen to have the two best d-lines in the conference, and try to figure out which one is likely to be the best, and whether both, either or neither are capable of becoming dominant defensive lines.
I think OSU has the best individual DE of the two teams (Joey Bosa) and OSU should have the best individual DT of the two teams (Adolphus Washington), but I like MSU’s overall strength and depth at the position. It’s a slight edge to go with Washington over Malik McDowell, although McDowell should be entering a window of steep improvement soon, which could help him overtake Washington. But right now, based on what we’ve seen from the two players so far, I’d go with Washington, a senior, over McDowell, a sophomore.
Washington had 10.5 TFLs last year and was honorable mention All-Big Ten. He is likely to make a jump in productivity this year, but so is McDowell.
[These perceptions can change sharply in September, of course, depending on which - if any - players are making big off-season jumps. We won’t get those answers until the actual games begin].
In this post, first I will take a look at OSU’s d-line of a year ago and discuss why I think they will be weaker this year.
Then, I’ll compare OSU’s projected d-line to MSU’s projected d-line.
At this time last year, I thought OSU was on the short list of teams around the country that could field a dominant defensive line (and therefore put their team on the short list of National Championship candidates. I thought this was impossible after OSU’s loss to Va Tech, and the suspension of Noah Spence, but it turned out to be true).
Can OSU field a dominant d-line again this year? Sure, it’s possible. OSU has a dominant DE in Bosa and a player who should be dominant at three-tech DT in Washington. (Washington played nose guard last year. He is moving to the three-technique to replace Michael Bennett, who graduated and became a sixth-round draft pick).
HOWEVER, Ohio State will be WEAKER at nose tackle than last year. Tommy Schutt, a fifth-year senior who has done very little to this point in his career, will be the new nose guard. I’m sure he’ll rise up and become a serviceable player, but he won’t be as good a nose tackle as Washington was last year. And the combination of Washington and Schutt won’t be as strong as the combo of Washington and Bennett.
Is there a star on the rise ready to compete with Schutt? Maybe. But if so, I’m not aware of him, maybe because I don't know OSU's roster and two-deep as well as I know MSU's. But for now, I won’t trust much of anything that I might read about any potential candidates. I only trust what I see on film. And there's no film yet. There wasn't much from the back-up d-linemen last season, other than Schutt and Tyquan Lewis (whom I will discuss in a moment).
Will OSU’s new starting DE be as good as Steve Miller was last year? Miller graduated and was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Jacksonville Jaguars. Miller was a dependable d-end. He was a 255-pounder who clocked in with a 5.0 40 at the NFL Combine. He was a quality college player, not a great one. Not quite as good as Marcus Rush, in my opinion, but still a quality player that OSU must replace.
The biggest x-factor on the OSU d-line is Miller’s replacement. Tyquan Lewis (6-3, 260, Soph.) held first-string status in the spring. He saw 201 snaps as a back-up DE last year, including 25 in the National Championship game vs Oregon. He had nine tackles on the year and 2.5 TFLs.
Lewis was a 4-star recruit, ranked the No. 12 weak side DE in the country and was No. 8 in North Carolina.
I took some notes on Lewis last year prior to the MSU-OSU game. He played 30-plus snaps vs Illinois last year, and I reviewed that game closely in advance of the MSU-OSU game, but didn’t arrive at any strong opinions at that time about Lewis other than “looks athletic.” I had lots of opinions on many other players, but none on Lewis. Will he be a difference-maker this year? That would be quite a leap, but OSU athletes have made that leap before.
So this guy is the x-factor. He’ll be starting at DE for a d-line that could end up being as good or better than MSU’s, and could become a dominant all-around defensive line - but not without a major step-up, uptick from Lewis.
Last year, OSU had a d-line of Bosa and Miller at DE, Bennett and Washington at DT. Schutt and Lewis were solid but unspectacular off the bench.
This year it will be Bosa and x-factor Lewis at DE. With Washington and pedestrian Schutt at DT. I don’t have much of a read on their back-ups.
MSU will have Shilique Calhoun and Lawrence Thomas at d-end, with x-factors Montez Sweat and Demetrious Cooper as back-up DEs. One of them could become a spot starter against spread teams.
We know more about Sweat and Cooper because we are more familiar with MSU’s roster and development updates. Is there a Sweat and/or Cooper on the OSU roster ready to match their athleticism and future productivity? Probably so, but I don’t know enough about their situation to evaluate that. But we know that Sweat and Cooper are very promising.
Overall, I like Calhoun/LT and MSU’s back-ups over OSU’s d-end situation - despite the fact that Bosa is the best of the bunch. But maybe not by much. I thought Calhoun looked quicker with his take-off at the Green-White Game than he was last fall. I didn’t notice this while watching it live. I noted it while watching the replay. I haven’t had a chance to ask Calhoun or coaches if in fact he has improved his take-off.
Lawrence Thomas turned in the most head-turning play of the Green-White Game, in my opinion. I’ll try to get some film of it in the next day or so. Again, I didn’t notice it live, but there was a play in which he beat Jack Conklin to the outside for a QB pressure. On that play, LT’s take-off was better than anything I had seen from him at the past, AND he was able to bend at the waist, get low, get his shoulder under Conklin, and keep coming forward with quickness AND power WHILE turning the corner. It was a high-, high-percentile play. Can he do it play after play? I don’t know. But when LT flips the switch, he can do some things that most others can’t.
I predicted a huge jump in productivity for LT last year at DT, and it didn’t quite happen. He was good, solid, functional, but unspectacular. I’m sticking with the prediction, but I think it will come 12 months later in 2015 and partly at a different position - defensive end.
At defensive tackle, MSU has proven, functional veterans in Joel Heath and Damon Knox. The key for those guys is to be able to take on double-teams without giving up any movement. That’s what Micajah Reynolds provided in 2013, and so did Tyler Hoover. Hoover made huge improvements in that area of the last 18 months of his career. I would anticipate Heath and Knox to be better than fine in this capacity, and also come forward for the occasional play at the line of scrimmage or behind it, like Reynolds did.
**
The last time we saw Heath in a real game, he turned in a strong, plus-play early in the Cotton Bowl. From my notes:
JOEL HEATH
+ First play 1-10, Heath belted the left guard back a half yard on an inside zone, bounced the play. The play went for a loss of 4, and Heath put the initial dent in the play by destroying the left guard. Not only did he belt the left guard back, he also messed up the geometry of the run play. The left tackle was supposed to join the left guard in double-teaming Heath, but Heath changed the landmark by belting the left guard back. The left tackle came off at what turned out to be the wrong aiming point.
Bullough was in the A gap, causing the RB to bounce. Bullough was unobstructed and able to jump over to the C gap and bounce him again.
Calhoun knifed inside the TE, bounced it further, Mylan Hicks sprinted and bounced it further, and Kurtis Drummond made the ankle tackle as the slot WR Cannon forgot to block the safety. (Cannon might not have been used to seeing plays get bounced in his direction). Loss of 4 to produce a third-and-5- dropped pass two snaps later. Heath made it happen up front, by defeating a double-team before it got started.
+ Heath assisted on TFL on 3-1 in the second quarter, got off the center to make the stop on an inside run.
(I had two “plus” plays for Heath in that game, no “minus” plays. Overall, I thought he ended his junior season with a good game).
**
Malik McDowell is the guy with the highest upside in the Michigan State DT crew. He offered mixed performance in the Cotton Bowl. He had some disciplinary problems on the field in that game, getting flagged twice for personal fouls. But he also turned in some of the best eye-opening plays of the day for a beleaguered defense.
Remember that McDowell earned the starting nod for the Cotton Bowl, over Knox.
I would expect McDowell and Heath to start at DT this fall, with Knox coming off the bench. Lawrence Thomas can move inside to DT in some games against some opponents in some situations. That’s a potentially very, very strong rotation. Plus, Enoch Smith is a solid bet to work into the rotation as the fourth or fifth man. He’s still a puppy. But he’ll have to be solid in order to stay ahead of the rest of the talented puppies inside.
My Cotton Bowl notes on McDowell:
* Started at NT in Cotton Bowl.
* Moved out to three technique on third-and-4
* Played with a perfectly flat back on first two snaps.
++ On the play prior to the trick play TD pass to the fat guy, McDowell took on a double-team at the three-technique, didn’t give up an inch, got low, got underneath it, powered out the other side and tackled the RB for a loss of 1. TFL when getting double teamed? Unthinkable. That was a major horsepower play - the only “double-plus” play that I charted for the defense all day.
+ Whupped the left guard’s butt for a QB flush and scramble keeper in red zone on second- and-10 with MSU down 41-21 with :06 left in the third quarter. Little plays like that helped stall Baylor in the red zone and keep MSU hanging in the game. This play drew a holding penalty, backed Baylor up, leading to the missed field goal off the upright.
**
Overall, in terms of individual starting talent, it’s Calhoun, Thomas, McDowell and Heath vs Bosa, Washington, Schutt and x-factor Lewis.
I agree with Dienhardt and give the edge to MSU.
Add Knox, Sweat, Cooper and Thomas’ ability to swing inside, and I think the d-line could be loaded with plus-playing individuals for every snap of each game. It’s going to be intriguing to watch this unit develop.
