I could read, but not post. A Few observations.....
We seem to currently have two factions on the board:
1) Those that expect to go to a bowl every year and that every other year it better be a major bowl as in Capital One level or above. Not making a bowl is simply unacceptable.
2) Those that hope to go to a bowl every year, regardless of level and that if MSU does not make a bowl game, it better be a 1 or 2 year situation max.
I think most who fall into these two categories can be defined by age, though their are certainly exceptions. Most people under 30 have a point of reference where MSU was winning on average 9 games a year and went to a bowl game 13 of the 14 seasons and 6 or 7 of those year could be described as bigger bowl games. (taking out COVID season).
Those over 40 have a frame of reference where MSU won on average 7 games a season for around 15 years and went to just 2 bowl games that would be described as major.
The people in group 1 view those in group 2 as not setting the bar high enough and as having expectations that are too low for a program of MSU's stature.
Those in group 2 view group 1 as being spoiled by Dantonio era and not having realistic expectations of what MSU can be long term.
The reality is that both are right.
1) We should demand high expectations for a program with the resources of MSU
2) We must not forget the BW/JLS era's and that the great Nick Saban left MSU partly because he did not think he could sustain elite success as compared to a school like LSU.
So how about meeting in the middle? Have high expectations, but understand that 8 wins a season average over a 10 year period is not bad. I do not see MSU ever being Alabama, Ohio State or Oklahoma. But can they do what Iowa has done under KIrk Ferentz in what is an even tougher division? To me that is what I would say is realistic.
If 10 years from now Mel Tucker has a record at MSU of 100 wins and 60 loses (He is 15-11 right now)., with 7 bowl appearances and 3 double digit wins and 1 season where MSU wins 12 or more games I think people should be happy. Keep in mind that probably means a couple 7-5 seasons and maybe a 4-8 sprinkled in. Is that Dantonio level? No it is not. I am not sure if MSU can win 65 games in a 6 year span in the current climate. During that time period OSU,PSU and UM all had coaching changes....Some of those changes were brought on by MSU beating them
The point is that with OSU/MSU/PSU/UM all currently having stable coaching situations, it is very difficult for anyone (baring the Buckeyes) from consistently going to playoff and playing in Indy.
Do not get me wrong, I would love for MSU to be winning 65 games every 6 years, but it is not realistic. Look at Clemson. Yes they are a power and have been for a little while, but what factors have contributed to that? Florida State and Miami have not been what they were. Va Tech has fallen off a cliff since Beamer retired. That guy won 84 games in first 8 years in ACC! The instability at all those programs makes the ACC a joke. You have Pitt winning ACC. You have Wake as a power. Syracuse is undefeated! All this is due to coaching issues and instability in Coral Gables, Tallahassee and Blacksburg. Do you think FSU fans a decade ago could of imagined missing on bowl games 4 years out of 5? Or Miami fans from the 80's and 90's thinking they would not finish a season ranked in top 10 for 20 years?
One thing I do think is necessary at MSU is to build a culture if you want to have any sustained success. Iowa is going to punch you in the mouth no matter if they are 11-1 or 6-6. That is the Hawkeyes' MO. MSU was like that under MD and Narduzzi. The difference was MSU also had superior offensive weapons. MSU needs to develop an identity be it as a defensive team that is gong to be like it was in under Narduzzi or maybe like the Wisconsin teams that were going to run it down your throat no matter what. The Badgers are a team searching for identity, hence the firing of Chryst. Right now this team has no real identity. MSU cannot win that way. You have to develop that identity and RECRUIT to it.
Losing makes it tough and everyone on hear wants MSU to win. I do think the following:
1) This team had the talent to win 9 or more games
2) Injuries have decimated them at critical positions of leadership
3) The coaching has not been to the level needed
4) Baring a solid turn around (7-5) IMO, staff changes will need to be made.
We seem to currently have two factions on the board:
1) Those that expect to go to a bowl every year and that every other year it better be a major bowl as in Capital One level or above. Not making a bowl is simply unacceptable.
2) Those that hope to go to a bowl every year, regardless of level and that if MSU does not make a bowl game, it better be a 1 or 2 year situation max.
I think most who fall into these two categories can be defined by age, though their are certainly exceptions. Most people under 30 have a point of reference where MSU was winning on average 9 games a year and went to a bowl game 13 of the 14 seasons and 6 or 7 of those year could be described as bigger bowl games. (taking out COVID season).
Those over 40 have a frame of reference where MSU won on average 7 games a season for around 15 years and went to just 2 bowl games that would be described as major.
The people in group 1 view those in group 2 as not setting the bar high enough and as having expectations that are too low for a program of MSU's stature.
Those in group 2 view group 1 as being spoiled by Dantonio era and not having realistic expectations of what MSU can be long term.
The reality is that both are right.
1) We should demand high expectations for a program with the resources of MSU
2) We must not forget the BW/JLS era's and that the great Nick Saban left MSU partly because he did not think he could sustain elite success as compared to a school like LSU.
So how about meeting in the middle? Have high expectations, but understand that 8 wins a season average over a 10 year period is not bad. I do not see MSU ever being Alabama, Ohio State or Oklahoma. But can they do what Iowa has done under KIrk Ferentz in what is an even tougher division? To me that is what I would say is realistic.
If 10 years from now Mel Tucker has a record at MSU of 100 wins and 60 loses (He is 15-11 right now)., with 7 bowl appearances and 3 double digit wins and 1 season where MSU wins 12 or more games I think people should be happy. Keep in mind that probably means a couple 7-5 seasons and maybe a 4-8 sprinkled in. Is that Dantonio level? No it is not. I am not sure if MSU can win 65 games in a 6 year span in the current climate. During that time period OSU,PSU and UM all had coaching changes....Some of those changes were brought on by MSU beating them
The point is that with OSU/MSU/PSU/UM all currently having stable coaching situations, it is very difficult for anyone (baring the Buckeyes) from consistently going to playoff and playing in Indy.Do not get me wrong, I would love for MSU to be winning 65 games every 6 years, but it is not realistic. Look at Clemson. Yes they are a power and have been for a little while, but what factors have contributed to that? Florida State and Miami have not been what they were. Va Tech has fallen off a cliff since Beamer retired. That guy won 84 games in first 8 years in ACC! The instability at all those programs makes the ACC a joke. You have Pitt winning ACC. You have Wake as a power. Syracuse is undefeated! All this is due to coaching issues and instability in Coral Gables, Tallahassee and Blacksburg. Do you think FSU fans a decade ago could of imagined missing on bowl games 4 years out of 5? Or Miami fans from the 80's and 90's thinking they would not finish a season ranked in top 10 for 20 years?
One thing I do think is necessary at MSU is to build a culture if you want to have any sustained success. Iowa is going to punch you in the mouth no matter if they are 11-1 or 6-6. That is the Hawkeyes' MO. MSU was like that under MD and Narduzzi. The difference was MSU also had superior offensive weapons. MSU needs to develop an identity be it as a defensive team that is gong to be like it was in under Narduzzi or maybe like the Wisconsin teams that were going to run it down your throat no matter what. The Badgers are a team searching for identity, hence the firing of Chryst. Right now this team has no real identity. MSU cannot win that way. You have to develop that identity and RECRUIT to it.
Losing makes it tough and everyone on hear wants MSU to win. I do think the following:
1) This team had the talent to win 9 or more games
2) Injuries have decimated them at critical positions of leadership
3) The coaching has not been to the level needed
4) Baring a solid turn around (7-5) IMO, staff changes will need to be made.
